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| Poll on keeping mags loaded for extended periods |
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Expert
Joined: 20 Mar 2009
Posts: 1764
Location: Papillion, NE Name: Tim
 Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| I leave mine loaded for a long periods and have fired 20 rd. AR mags that had been loaded for years with no issues... Here's a article about said issue:
The shooting sports are full of some of the most knowledgeable and capable people you'll meet anywhere. I've been impressed consistently with the abilities of those I meet at the range to diagnose and fix a gun problem with as little as some spray lube and a cotton swab. However, sometimes a myth will creep into the folklore. The magazine spring myth has been around for many years and is growing in popularity. It goes something like this: "You should unload your magazines when they're not in use or the spring will weaken causing failures to feed." This has gone as far as shooting competitors actually unloading their magazines between stages to extend the life of their springs. A variant of this myth is: "You should never load a magazine to capacity and should always leave it one round short." What if you need that round some day? Recently, I read an article in a gun magazine suggesting you rotate your magazines so the ones not in use can "recover and rest." The same author uses the phrase "spring-set" to describe weakness of a spring because it was compressed for a long time. Hogwash. There's nothing further from the truth. Springs don't care how long they're compressed and don't require rest, recreation or even a vacation from time to time. Shameful Spring Benders To put this one to rest, you have to understand creep. Creep is the slow flow of a non-ferric metal like copper, brass and lead under force. At temperatures outside of a furnace, steel doesn't have any appreciable creep. Under most conditions, steel flexes and then returns to its original shape. When pushed past its elastic limit, steel will bend and not return to its original shape. All designers of well-made magazines make sure the spring never approaches the elastic limit when the magazine is fully loaded. Honest. This means the spring will not weaken when the magazine is fully loaded -- not even over an extended time. Like 50 years. American Handgunner recently ran a story about a magazine full of .45 ACP that had been sitting since WWII and it ran just fine on the first try. So there you go. Now that the light of truth is leaking out, lets talk about what is causing failures to feed. The only way to weaken a magazine spring is to flex it past its normal range (elastic limit). If this is happening, somebody is trying to overload a magazine or has "adjusted" it by bending the spring. Both of these could cause feed failures. Shame on you if you're a spring bender. Carlton Nether, Customer Service for Beretta USA, tells us keeping a pistol magazine loaded for an extended period doesn't cause magazine spring failure, however, failures to feed can result. He says, "The ammo will 'roll' in the magazine. If the mags are kept loaded and moved around a lot -- say on a cop's belt -- the rolling action can, over time, cause creases in the cases. These creases can cause malfunctions. Also the top bullet will roll against the magazine lips and creasing can occur there as well. Just check old ammo that's been bouncing around in a magazine for a long time. We tell police officers if they keep loaded magazines, take a few seconds to "cycle" the ammo. Periodically unload the mag and reload it in a different sequence. This movement will allow the bullets to be in different parts of the magazine and help eliminate creasing. At STI, Dave Skinner, President and CEO says, "Personally, I rotate my 'under the bed' and 'under the seat' mags about every six months. I always empty them the 'fun' way and have never had a failure." Given what we learned above, this sounds like a good idea. Smith and Wesson customer service also says magazines can stay loaded indefinitely without hurting the spring. As we add force onto a spring, it will displace the same amount for each amount of force we add. This is true until the spring passes a certain point called the elastic limit. Robert Hooke discovered this theory back in 1660. Hooke's Law states: "If the applied forces on a body are not too large, the deformations resulting are directly proportional to the forces producing them." Which means, in actual human being language, if we load a spring past its elastic limit, it permanently deforms. It still provides a force against the load but the force is no longer proportional. If this happens, when we unload the spring (such as when we empty a magazine that has been over-loaded) the spring never returns to a state where it can provide the same load for the same amount of displacement. Trust Us When a magazine manufacturer designs a spring, they plan for a preload. The spring is already compressed some in the magazine. On the curve below, this would be Point A. The spring compression would be designed to be below the Elastic Limit. When fully compressed, the spring would be at Point B. If the spring is ever compressed past the elastic limit, say to Point C, it won't ever behave the same. Like a recalcitrant lazy Uncle, it will have a lower spring force for each amount of displacement. On the drawing, the spring would now cycle between points D and E. This means that -- particularly with the last bullet or two -- the force pushing the bullet up would be less and lo-and-behold, a mis-feed might occur. When somebody stretches your spring to "fix" your magazine, they are trying to get you back on the original curve. They may get pretty close, however, it's unlikely the spring will ever perform to its original design. The elastic limit is now shifted lower and your magazine spring may fail to perform fairly quickly. Having said all this, if you have a magazine that isn't feeding right, what should you do? First, disassemble the magazine and clean it thoroughly. Then try it with new, factory ammunition in a freshly cleaned gun. This takes away some of the possible causes. If you are still having feed problems, send it back. Even the low cost, after-market magazine manufacturers will fix the problem at no cost to you other than shipping. If it's a magazine from the gun's manufacturer, let them troubleshoot and repair the problem. Otherwise, toss the mag. It's not worth risking your life to save a few bucks. And that's the truth. RELATED ARTICLE: Definitions Creep: The flow or plastic deformation of metals held for long periods of time at stresses lower than the normal yield strength. Elastic Limit: The maximum stress that material will stand before permanent deformation occurs. Yield Strength: The stress at which the metal changes from elastic to plastic in behavior, i.e., takes a permanent set. Permanent Set: Non-elastic or plastic, deformation of metal under stress, after passing the elastic limit. Magazine Recommendations * Clean your magazines when they get gritty. Apply oil then remove all excess. Oil attracts dirt that may cause malfunction. * If you find rust on the spring, this is culprit. Rust changes the thickness of the metal and reduces the force applied to the follower. Cleaning off the rust may help. For a gun you depend on, replace the spring. All the major brands and most of the smaller ones have replacement mag springs available or try Wolff Springs. * If you keep a magazine loaded for long periods, rotate the rounds every few months. If you carry a pistol on the job or in your car, cycle the ammo frequently. These actions prevent creases from forming which may cause a misfeed. * If you experience feed problems, first clean your magazines and weapon. Fire a couple magazines of new factory ammo to see if this resolves the problem. If not send the magazine back to the manufacturer -- or toss it. COPYRIGHT 2003 Publishers' Development Corporation COPYRIGHT 2003 Gale Group http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_163_27/ai_99130369/pg_3/?tag=content;col1 |
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2010 Grill Master
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 985
Location: Mobile, AL Name: Steve
| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I have had a Mini-30 mag that has been loaded for over 15 yrs. It shot fine the last range trip. _________________ Pasquale91, Killing Chatterbox threads since 27 Jan 2009. |
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HMFIC
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 3133
Location: NW Indiana Name: Mike
| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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An EMPTY magazine is a USELESS magazine when you NEED it.  _________________ Dream as if you'll live forever; Live as if you'll die today. - James Dean |
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Contributor
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 572
Location: Durham, NC Name: Josh
| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks guys, I thought that was the answer, but better safe than sorry.
Mike I am with you, I think I have 7 or 8 loaded right now. _________________ Josh Glock 27, Ruger LCP-R Custom Delton/Magpul/Daniel Defense/BCM 16" Mid Length AR-15 |
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Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 771
Location: Chandler, AZ Name: Dean
| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I have 10 stainless steel mags that I keep fully loaded and 10 alumininum that stay empty for range use. _________________ I came into this world kicking, screaming and covered in somebody else's blood...I got no problem going out the same way. |
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Contributor
Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Posts: 2987
Location: Middle Hell ...Name: Oscar ........Member # 104
| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| i left one in my range bag by accident and forgot about it for a winter. found it the next summer. left it till the next winter and then shot it. zero malfunctions. perfect function and loaded up just fine. i have 16 loaded mags that have been that way for 3 months before i left when i get back they will have been loaded for 15 months....... ill let you know how that works out for me _________________ WELCOME TO THE BOX WWW.youtube.com/leeindy |
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Expert
Joined: 20 Mar 2009
Posts: 1764
Location: Papillion, NE Name: Tim
| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| [quote:74de723199="ogre"]I have 10 stainless steel mags that I keep fully loaded and 10 alumininum that stay empty for range use. | |
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Marksman
Joined: 03 Dec 2009
Posts: 81
Location: Ohio
| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| I keep a stack of Pmags loaded at all time, but most of mine are unloaded.
Ohio law states no loaded rifle mags in a vehicle so I've gotta keep a bunch unloaded. |
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unqualified
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 19
| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I have 4 Pmags that have been loaded for 2 years and counting. They will be fine. Load your mags and have them ready when you need them. I might not be the best shot but i can shoot faster than you can reload. | |
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Contibutor + Club 50
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 890
Location: The Heart of Dixie! ... Name: Chile
| Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| I keep about 20 mags loaded-n-ready for my AR, 5 for my XD9 and more for my S12.
100% concur, the only thing that wears out a spring is using it, the rest is hogwash. As for deformed feed lips on aluminum mags, heard of it, never seen it. My loaded AR/XD mags are all steel or PMag, and PMag has it covered _________________ DILLIGAF? USPA# 106617, D#24868, 600+ jumps in 42/50 states, 36 fixed & 6 rotary winged aircraft, Highest 28,000'-Lowest 1,500', Reserve Rides-5, Injuries-1 "I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick @$$, and I'm all out of bubble gum." |
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Sharpshooter
Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 225
Location: San Angelo, TX Name: Micky
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I keep several Pmags loaded all the time. | |
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Marksman
Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 91
Location: Arkansas
| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| I think just about every mag i have is loaded. | |
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Commercial Vendor
Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 9
Location: LeesSummit, MO Name: Ty
| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| I've seen it posted on other boards but the folks at Magpul have some prototype PMAGs that have been left loaded for 18+ months without any issues. And that's without the use of the dust cover. _________________ Ty | info@midwestpx.com | 815.246.AR15 (2715)  |
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Marksman
Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 86
| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| I have right around 25 mags and all are loaded with 28 in each. I have yet to have a problem. 23 are Cproducts mags with magpul follower, 1 old colt 20 rd mag and 1 Pmag. They have been used and abused and still function flawlessly. | |
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Contributor
Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 801
Location: Trail Creek, IN Name: Larry
| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:07 pm Post subject: All Full |
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Every mag for every weapon here is loaded full. All weapons except the 10-22 have a mag in it and 1 in the tube. IMO an unloaded weapon may as well be a rock  ._________________ Larry  |
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